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What would you want in another LOK Game?

I'll answer as best I can. I can illuminate the past, my friends.

Moderator: Daniel Cabuco

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SR or LOK related questions only, please. And please keep it respectful. All are welcome to give opinions and thoughts.

Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby Raina Audron » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:39 pm

Tenaya, you are back online!!! welcome!:)
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"My faith in destiny is all I need to prevail" (Raziel, Soul Reaver).
http://theancientsden.blogspot.com/
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby Dubiel » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:09 pm

Wow, Tenaya! It's been years! How are you?
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby Scion of Clumsiness » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:35 pm

I think the most important factor in a new LoK game for me is the story, obviously a lot of fans love the series for its storyline and I think its fair to ask for a grand finale if you will. Now everyone has cool ideas on what the ending should be, at some point Kain will want to either find new guardians, OR hit the Hylden problem on the head and go to the main dimension to sort them all out. maybe once hes gained a lot of power he will actually tear the cancer that is the Elder God out of the world and destroy it completely.


Other things that I think would be cool is to be able to see the full Ancient Vampire/Hylden war from start to finish, including the story behind the human "rebellion" as well as the humans being sired as vampires, I think that's a large section of the LoK history that we have only "heard" about, not experienced. Same with the thousand+ years after the events of BO2, I want to see Kains empire build. But the most important part is the finalising of the main storyline, and done in a intriguing manner that has a lot of the examples I have mentioned or other cool things that give the players lots to do.


Gameplay

So obviously its going to be an RPG, preferably an action RPG because if it pushes to far to be RPG you may lose sight of the character your playing as (Kain) if your spending "too much" time messing with stats and what not. That said I think actual progress of power is something fun in an RPG, maybe you could accumulate evolution points by defeating foes, drinking blood etc and at every waypoint Kain gains new dark gifts and evolves, his actual character model could actually change as well, I know some people don't like the idea of Kain with wings but I think the "scion of balance" mural/image on the wall of a winged Kain wielding the reaver in Defiance was very cool personally. Either way, I think gaining a steady set of powers would be cool.


Nothing too complicated of course, meanwhile Kain can also gain his abilities from Blood omen 1 and 2, I miss the old powers like immolate, mind control, etc, it would give the player tons to play with and they can steadily gain powers throughout the game.



Open world

I think to a lesser degree the LoK world being opened up completely in an open world so that I can travel anywhere in the world would be fun, the world was kind of like that in previous games but I think having a no holds barred travel would be cool and whats more, time travel if possible. I know its a lot of ask but wouldn't it be cool if you could travel as Kain to various points in LoK history, not to tamper directly with events (since the games timeline is fragile) but to go to places Kain has not been, like the Hylden/vampire wars etc.



armies, holdings etc

As part of his bid to re-take Nosgoth under Vampire rule (where I would like to see Kain go to eventually) and to batter out the Hylden and minor human remnants I think it would be interesting if the game had a mechanic where you could "make" vampires out of the entities Kain defeats and eventually gather an army that he can bring together (separate to traveling the world and the solo story, I don't want to be constantly followed) for large scale battles where Kain takes the field with his armies, what we have yet to do is see Kain in all out war, weve heard and seen bits of his vampire army in BO 2 and heard of his eventually control of Nosgoth in the soul reaver era but I have always wanted to play as Kain and command an army of vampires on the field, Kain letting loose huge blasts of power and attacks to kill large numbersof foes meanwhile your vamps are getting stuck in. Maybe to make the game think a bit (think puzzles) there could be different vampires you can bring to face various threats, e.g. use more agile or ranged focus vampires (Like Turelem esque with long range sonic blasts) against humans with guns and flamethrowers, but Dumahim esque forces (large, tough melee combatants) to rush into close range.

Meanwhile Kain can regain strongholds to gain ever larger armies and ever more "nesting" grounds for Vampires.

This last part is just a personal wish, its not a common part of previous LoK games.

Conclusion

--Must haves

1.- Epic story and conclusion to the primary series
2.- All the great voice acting and the same art style, gothic feeling Lok games are known for.
3.- Maybe better camera than Defiance, and more abilities. I don't see why what with new releases Kain should be restricted, hes had a lot of toys and powers over the years, I want to play with them all! :P


--Would be cool in my opinion

--Open world play, the ability to see the whole of Nosgoth, past, present and future if possible.
--Evolutions, gain physical abilities as time goes on.
-- Army combat, large scale battles with hundreds of fighters. I know it would be different to previous Lok but I think at least one war in Nosgoth could be played out in full, especially with current technology. At the very least, I would enjoy fighting more than half a dozen guys at a time, I am a godlike vampire, you need more people if you want to face me :twisted:
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby Daniel Cabuco » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:07 am

Thank you Tanaya and Scion for your detailed responses. Great thoughts and design ideas! The scale though, sounds huge! Something like that would be on the level of Elder Scrolls. Open world RPG plus incredible story is one of the most amazing goals a game can achieve. What would you think of something that was more like the Witcher in terms of camera and scale, with a multiplayer element that allowed for customizable vampire creation (and army development)?
I've just started playing Witcher 2, and see a lot of interesting action/RPG elements in it.
I think we can all agree that the story, voice acting, gothic look, and better camera are must-have elements. :)
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby Scion of Clumsiness » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:56 am

Certainly, your right the Witcher esque idea is excellent. I have played both Witcher games and that sort of gameplay is a lot of fun.

I guess I just threw all my eggs in one basket with the above post, since after all if you want to list some forms of wish fulfilment, you may as well wish for everything you can! lol
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby Tim Controls Me » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:35 am

Scion of Clumsiness wrote:to see the full Ancient Vampire/Hylden war from start to finish; Same with Kain's empire build.
Time travel era-skimming tours. Set the chronoplast to "Show me the relevant." Then you can see only the big revelation moments from that 1000 years, the Cliff's notes that can be crammed into a single game. The narration could sort of then be what tied it all together thematically as a learning process about what really happened and what Kain should do next now that he knows his people's past. And, if one is feeling foolish, they might even presume to partake in some of these events.

you could accumulate evolution points by defeating foes, drinking blood etc. I know some people don't like the idea of Kain with wings but I think the "scion of balance" mural/image on the wall of a winged Kain wielding the reaver in Defiance was very cool personally.


Maybe a mix of 1) "generic lore" points that'd just make you stronger overall (health) and turn you into a more sturdy and imposing threat to other vampires, with prestige ranks that'd allow you to choose more powerful evolutions with each upgrade in rank, and then 2) "evolution points" that'd be redeemable for specific dark gifts. Beating a boss would give you a mess of these points, along with a big one-time-only discount on the dark gift you're "supposed" to absorb from that boss, but you'd have the option of ignoring that heavily incentived choice and doing the "Build your own vampire" thing instead. Spend the points to purchase a dark gift of your choice from the avialable menu, or wait until you've unlocked better evolutionary options through exploration and finding weird temples with obelisks surrounded by energy fields. Spend the points while exposing yourself to that funky energy field. Then the next day you feel the need to coccoon yourself for the state of change. (Muzak plays briefly during your transformation in the cocoon). :roll: Or maybe you could afford 2 minor evolutions for the same price. Evolution strategy becomes a thing, for replay value especially.

There'd be desirable evolutionary outcomes to target in advance, like the development tree in Elder Scrolls? But these known results are only known because they're the evolution paths taken by previous vampires. You should also be able to experiment, like mixing drinks, to try for the creation of new dark gifts the world has never seen before, or to achieve a rare mix of powers that usually aren't all contained in a single vampire.

(My super-secret theory for why all the winged-Kain resentment: goths are under great peer pressure to not be religious so that they are free to make artistic sounding commentary about life. So they can't come out in favor of a winged Kain because it's too angel-ish for comfort. I happen to love the flying blue scion who appears to have bodily restored the ancient vampire race.)

a mechanic where you could "make" vampires out of the entities Kain defeats and eventually command an army of vampires on the field, different vampires you can bring to face various threats

Good one! Summoning puzzles! When faced with an "unstoppable force" type problem that's when you'd call up the "immovable object" sort of vampire you have at your disposal. Hey, that's right, the time is almost here for more Sons and Daughters of Kain to be born. Or reborn? Do you think he's mature enough to handle being a parent this time, though? :lol:

Daniel Cabuco wrote: The scale though, sounds huge! Open world RPG plus incredible story is one of the most amazing goals a game can achieve.
Maybe ways could be found to cheat a little to integrate the story bits so you wouldn't have to rely on Kain finding that one hugely-important-to-the-story hut in the middle of nowhere in a huge world. What if the game automatically activated story bits as soon as Kain leveled up enough to make the confrontation appropriate or as soon as he crossed ANY part of a geographical large border. (In effect making the map smaller again by not requiring Kain to find a bunch of needles in haystacks because more of the story would find him). Maybe like Vorador in Blood Omen he'd agree to be summonable by HQ whenever there was a vampire-related emergency he needed to respond to. Then he could do his own hunting however he wanted the rest of the time, picking one side mission or another to level up until the next story part triggered. Maybe a demon lord hunts anyone who gets powerful enough to start challenging it, and when Kain reaches that power threshold IT's ON and that fight comes to him. Does that kind of thing help reduce the nightmare for designers, or does it just make the game look more contrived without really reducing your workload any?
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby Scion of Clumsiness » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:05 pm

Yes your right Tim, being able to go to small quips relevant to Kains past, the most interesting bits. There's a discussion already here about Vampiric wars, that would be awesome, especially if you could take the field as Kain to get your unruly minions to right ;)

And also concerning the evolutions those are good ideas, a lot more player choice. I guess I suggested linear progression of gaining evolution because that seems to be more in line with the storyline, I don't think vampires "choose" their gifts, not to mention in games with choice sometimes one ability may be more powerful than another, it would give the team extra work to balance everything.

I agree though, I love the development of Skyrim, having fields, perks and abilities that you choose based on points you accumulate would be fun, as long as theres nothing overpowered.

Yeah I mean the blue looking scion looks cool and if he became that shape, it would better "show" on his body the purification Raziel gave him. That way theres a clear difference between the "pure" vampires of the past before any sort of Nosgoth corruption. But this;

Image

Is pretty cool in my opinion, I don't see why people don't like the idea of Kain becoming that.


Also Tim you seem to know a lot about legacy of Kain, do you think you could give me your opinion on my questions I gave in my other "questions" post in this forum? Would appreciate if you have some ideas.
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby LittleShadow » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:16 am

And while I LOVE LOVE LOVE Raziel, I just don't see him in his blue form reappearing in a future game. It would seem cheesy to bring him back and I think weaken the sacrifice made at the end of Defiance. Now being able to play the vampire brethren version.. that could be interesting, right?


That works! (Q bow chica wow wow music) Lol :D And I thought about re-editing that last part about bringing them back for a cameo bc of the cheesiness, but I figured maybe some people could get a good chuckle out of it so I just left it as is :) So glad to hear that something is being done though!

I also like the idea of having the original team working on the next next game, it's like having a warm blanket and a warm cup of hot chocolate to curl up with: you just know it's gonna work ;)
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Re: What would you want in another LOK Game?

Postby GenFeelGood » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:16 am

We've never had a human focused game, for good reason obviously; but for the purpose of this game idea, I think this could be how it could work.

Full disclosure, this was originally started in the Nosgoth forum.

This is a dark souls style game where you play as a one of many recently killed humans that have been resurrected by the Elder God in the era after Soul Reaver, for the purpose of finally exterminating the vampires. Whenever you die, the Elder God resurrects you to fight once again.

Your goal is to fight your way through the clan territories and initiating purge mechanisms that eliminate the vampires in the area, turning on the Silenced Cathedral to purge the Zephonim for example. Along the way you can do side missions for what remains of the now divided human factions in efforts bring them together and gain their assistance in the war effort.
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