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The Vampires Of LOK

I'll answer as best I can. I can illuminate the past, my friends.

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SR or LOK related questions only, please. And please keep it respectful. All are welcome to give opinions and thoughts.

Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Azura Soul Reaver » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:39 pm

Ok that makes sense! Thanks!
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Azura Soul Reaver » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:41 pm

Daniel, I was wondering if you know why Kain, Raziel, and his brothers were named as they are, why the Reaver became such an important weapon, and why the slight design change for the Reaver? Though I do think the it looks cooler in SR1-Defiance than it did in Blood Omen 1.
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby majinkura » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:39 am

and I just now thought of a question as well.

if kain sired the sarafan long after they were dead and their corpses were nothing but bones and dried up flesh,then how do they still look like their former selves appearance wise? (i mean in basic facial features)like did their souls when returning to the body just recreate what they originally looked like??(sans the sarafan memories of course)
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Lexy » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:21 pm

majinkura wrote:and I just now thought of a question as well.

if kain sired the sarafan long after they were dead and their corpses were nothing but bones and dried up flesh,then how do they still look like their former selves appearance wise? (i mean in basic facial features)like did their souls when returning to the body just recreate what they originally looked like??(sans the sarafan memories of course)


I am not sure of this either but I heard from different discussions that Kain first gave them part of his soul to draw theirs back to their corpse, and then he would have had to give them some blood from somewhere, either his own or someone else's, to restore their flesh. Sort of like how the protagonist in the first Underworld movie restores one of the rulers' desiccated body with some of their own blood, maybe? In that film it seems to take a while, and the newly 'awakened' vampire Lord needs more blood through tubes, but eventually he is restored to looking human again. I sort of imagined it like that,a slow process rather than a nearly instantaneous one. I guess it would be a time consuming and messy process for the bretheren to be raised this way, and maybe Kain didn't revive them all at once. Maybe Daniel can shed light on it - I'd love to know the answer to this :D
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Dubiel » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:53 pm

Well that one's been covered in these old SR2 materials (even though it's not addressed in the games)...

A Brief History of Nosgoth (by Amy Hennig?) wrote:Kain, appreciating the irony of his decision, sets the ruined Pillars as the seat of his fledgling empire, with the unrestored Balance Pillar as the base of his throne. Kain establishes his empire by recruiting six lieutenants. Kain, raised by necromancy, cannot "turn" a vampire via the traditional blood gift. By breathing a small portion of his vampire soul into a corpse, he draws the corpse's sould back into the body - the corpse is then revived as a fledgling vampire. In an act of calculated blasphemy, Kain raids the tomb of the six martyred Sarafan commanders. Their well-entombed corpses - though long dead - have been spared the corruption of the grave. Going from crypt to crypt, he breathes his reviviging gift into each of the Sarafan corpses in turn. Thus he raises his six first-born "sons" as the lieutenants of his fledgling empire.
Raziel is raised first, and thus receives the greatest portion of Kain's gift. The six lieutenants have been too long dead to remember much of their human lives; they are ignorant of their Sarafan roots, or of Kain's blasphemous private joke.


I would say the underlined text indicates, that they didn't actually rot at all, as one would tend to presume. But on top of any Sarafan embalming that may have gone on, the tomb was airtight and perfectly sealed, so it would probably not be susceptible to humidity.

I guess we could imagine that the Circle of Nine might also have helped the martyrs out with some spells to indefinitely ward off decay.
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Lexy » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:22 pm

^

...It says in there that "Kain, raised by necromancy, cannot "turn" a vampire via the traditional blood gift".

So Raziel and his brothers were raised by necromancy as well, so they cannot turn vampires by the traditional blood gift, either, only necromancy...?

(I thought Kain's lieutenants would have used blood gift because Raziel says that Melchiah's clan is debased in SR1 because they seem to be getting their fledgelings from dead bodies and graves.)

:/

...Or was it just a newly-dead corpse that was acceptable I wonder, and not a desiccated, old one...
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby majinkura » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:35 pm

Dubiel wrote:
A Brief History of Nosgoth (by Amy Hennig?) wrote:Their well-entombed corpses - though long dead - have been spared the corruption of the grave. Raziel is raised first, and thus receives the greatest portion of Kain's gift. The six lieutenants have been too long dead to remember much of their human lives; they are ignorant of their Sarafan roots, or of Kain's blasphemous private joke.


I would say the underlined text indicates, that they didn't actually rot at all, as one would tend to presume. But on top of any Sarafan embalming that may have gone on, the tomb was airtight and perfectly sealed, so it would probably not be susceptible to humidity.

I guess we could imagine that the Circle of Nine might also have helped the martyrs out with some spells to indefinitely ward off decay.


Thanks Dubiel!! this definitely answered my question!! :)

but i still want to hear Daniels take on an answer as well.
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Dubiel » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:49 pm

I think there's only one piece of text anywhere about the specifics of how the lieutenants raised vampires, from the same source above:

A Brief History of Nosgoth wrote:Kain's empire grows. The six lieutenants recruit clans of their own, "turning" the corpses of their human victims to do their bidding.


My understanding from the Necropolis dialogue is that any decently-preserved corpse can be resurrected, and that any vampire (Kain, lieutenants and ordinary clan members alike) was able to raise new fledglings - but reviving the long-dead was scorned as disgusting.

Maybe that was a taboo mandated by Kain because he wasn't sure whether those ancient corpses might eventually start remembering their old lives, giving the lieutenants and everyone else too many hints about Nosgoth's past (e.g. the Sarafan). So they would probably only bring back the freshly dead, and ideally those they personally killed.

It would be awesome to have more specifics on the traditional blood gift, the differences between vampires raised by blood gift and soul gift, the preservation of the Sarafan, etc!
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Tim Controls Me » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:04 pm

It's a world where "ordinary" zombies rise from the grave, so sarafan priests may have performed what rituals they could to spare their own dead from that fate. Slight tinge of magic warding & preservation? Mummy type special care treatment?

But basically it didn't matter what state they were in when they were raised, right? The addition of the curse to their souls took care of rebuilding the tendons and skin layers of their bodies for them, just like it always regenerates their wounds each time you harm them. (Less curse-power was gifted to Melchiahim, so their bodies are less rebuilt). The curse (from Janos' heart) was to always be stuck in the same body forever, so the curse emanating from their souls keeps them as whole as possible. Because that body is their prison, so the curse maintains it. (I don't know if the pre-curse ancients also had fast healing or if they first received it as a dark gift when they sickened).

(I'm unsure of whether foot soldier vamps had the ability to sire necros or if reproduction was centrally controlled by the clan bosses).

Dubiel wrote:It would be awesome to have more specifics on the traditional blood gift, the differences between vampires raised by blood gift and soul gift, the preservation of the Sarafan, etc!
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Re: The Vampires Of LOK

Postby Lexy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:34 pm

I just remembered that the Sarafan inquisitors had all of their blood drained out of them by the Reaver. That's the first stage of embalming done with no effort at all...
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