• This forum is for the discussion of portfolios, getting into the game industry, and Projects Daniel Cabuco has or is working on.
  • It is currently Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:20 am
DCabDesign

Initial Soul Reaver plot

I'll answer as best I can. I can illuminate the past, my friends.

Moderator: Daniel Cabuco

Forum rules
SR or LOK related questions only, please. And please keep it respectful. All are welcome to give opinions and thoughts.

Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Boltar » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:23 pm

Hi Daniel, thank you for what you are doing for the LoK community, it's nice to see we haven't been forgotten. It's also very kind of you to provide answers that some of us have long waited for... :D

I have a few questions related to the initial plot of Soul Reaver 1, before it was cut for time constraints. And a few on the Reaver blade in other games.

1) We've learned from deleted audio and other sources that in the initial SR1 conclusion, Raziel was to ultimately kill Kain and open the pipes of the Silenced Cathedral to kill all the vampires. No time travel apparently involved and this conclusion appeared quite final. I was wondering if the team had planned to adress the origin of the Soul Reaver one way or another in SR1 (or in an in a "different" SR2 ?). Had the Wraith Blade always been thought as being Raziel's soul, or did the idea come during SR2 ? If that was the case, was there a different explanation as to why the Soul Reaver broke when Kain used it on Raziel in SR1 ?

2) Still about the original SR1 conclusion, Kain's motivations appear to differ from what we've seen in SR2 (originally, Kain seemed ready to die at Raziel's hand, apparently letting him kill all vampires with the sound pipes). Could you elaborate on Kain's original intentions before the ending was cut ?

3) Now this is about BO1, so I will understand if you don't have an anwser for that, but... in BO1, when Kain traveled back through time, the only weapon that could kill William the Just was the Soul Reaver. Was it already planned by Sillicon Knights that 2 incarnations of the Reaver could create a paradox (and the idea was carried on in SR2) ?

4) Related to SR2: so in the ending cutscene, the Wraith Blade leaves Raziel's arm, then does it already go inside the Reaver, or is it just coiling on the Reaver (as it did with William's Reaver earlier in the game) and then it turns the blade against Raziel, so as to restore the empty blade to its "original" (in the Wraith Blade's "mind") state ? I never really understood how Raziel's soul is transfered inside the Reaver...

Thank you again for the opportunity you gives us of having our most burning questions answered ;) Also, don't get me wrong if I'm interested in SR1's original ending, I still think the actual ending was brilliant, and so was SR2 !
Boltar
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Daniel Cabuco » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:56 am

Boltar wrote:Hi Daniel, thank you for what you are doing for the LoK community, it's nice to see we haven't been forgotten. It's also very kind of you to provide answers that some of us have long waited for... :D

I have a few questions related to the initial plot of Soul Reaver 1, before it was cut for time constraints. And a few on the Reaver blade in other games.


Hi Boltar, Thanks! It's my pleasure to answer questions for you. I think LOK fans are the best, they ask great questions!

Boltar wrote:1) We've learned from deleted audio and other sources that in the initial SR1 conclusion, Raziel was to ultimately kill Kain and open the pipes of the Silenced Cathedral to kill all the vampires. No time travel apparently involved and this conclusion appeared quite final. I was wondering if the team had planned to adress the origin of the Soul Reaver one way or another in SR1 (or in an in a "different" SR2 ?). Had the Wraith Blade always been thought as being Raziel's soul, or did the idea come during SR2 ? If that was the case, was there a different explanation as to why the Soul Reaver broke when Kain used it on Raziel in SR1 ?

When the scene first played out, I asked Amy why it broke on Raziel. She explained that 'you can't reave your own soul'. That made sense to me. Somehow she had always planned for Raziel to be inside the reaver, and probably would have addressed it in the next game in some meaningful way. There wasn't a different explanation for the Soul Reaver as far as I know.



Boltar wrote:2) Still about the original SR1 conclusion, Kain's motivations appear to differ from what we've seen in SR2 (originally, Kain seemed ready to die at Raziel's hand, apparently letting him kill all vampires with the sound pipes). Could you elaborate on Kain's original intentions before the ending was cut ?

Kain saw his empire as a failure after a milennia of trying to forge it. He witnessed the devolution of his children, and the loss of his empire. Ann Rice always had a nice theory about few people having the 'stamina for immortality'. Kain was much more tragic in the original ending, having forseen much in the Chronoplast.I think he saw the inevitablity of it all, and was ready to go. But he wanted to set Raziel on a path first...

Boltar wrote:3) Now this is about BO1, so I will understand if you don't have an anwser for that, but... in BO1, when Kain traveled back through time, the only weapon that could kill William the Just was the Soul Reaver. Was it already planned by Sillicon Knights that 2 incarnations of the Reaver could create a paradox (and the idea was carried on in SR2) ?


No the Paradox was created to help explain some of the inconsistencies of BO2, and to create the ability to change fate. It was entirely Amy's creation: she found a way to use coincidences in BO as a way to explain the ability to change time. I thought it was a brilliant solution!

Boltar wrote:4) Related to SR2: so in the ending cutscene, the Wraith Blade leaves Raziel's arm, then does it already go inside the Reaver, or is it just coiling on the Reaver (as it did with William's Reaver earlier in the game) and then it turns the blade against Raziel, so as to restore the empty blade to its "original" (in the Wraith Blade's "mind") state ? I never really understood how Raziel's soul is transfered inside the Reaver...


The weaving was to show that a tether existed, anchoring Raziel to the blade. It's a prison, made to house Raziel's soul and consciousness. The Anchor would set, preventing Raz from letting go to the blade, then draw him into itself. In that moment, when he is both inside and outside the blade (anchored and passing into it), a time paradox exists the same as when 2 Soul Reavers cross. The blade would absorb and house him into itself. From then on, whenever the blade struck an enemy as the Soul Reaver (as opposed to the Blood Reaver) it would devour the soul of whomever it killed.

Boltar wrote:Thank you again for the opportunity you gives us of having our most burning questions answered ;) Also, don't get me wrong if I'm interested in SR1's original ending, I still think the actual ending was brilliant, and so was SR2 !


Thanks! There was a lot of unique challenges to making the SR series, but I think, despite all the changes, it turned out for the best. Necessity sometimes begets creative brilliance, and at every turn we strove to create a fun, intellectual experience that was coherent. I can't really imagine the series ending differently than it did.

Thanks for the great question, Boltar!

Daniel
Daniel Cabuco
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:24 am

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby majinkura » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:26 am

It's a prison, made to house Raziel's soul and consciousness.


wait..so if kain were to try and kill Janos(hypothetically) the reaver would just stop working the minute it would touch his "friend"?
Image
User avatar
majinkura
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:08 am
Location: The Sanctuary Of The Clans.....

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Daniel Cabuco » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:40 am

Nope. Raziel is just a ravenous, insane soul. He needs to feed and doesn't care who he hits. I don't believe he's fully conscious in the blade.. living and somewhat sentient. If Kain hit Janos with it, and killed him, Raziel would consume his soul.
Daniel Cabuco
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:24 am

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Raina Audron » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:49 pm

damn, that´s sad :/ I really like Raziel as a character, and also his unique appearance. Would he lose his consciousness right away when his soul was drawn into the blade or would it happen slowly? Also - what actually is doing the "pull" itself? Is it the enchantment on the Blood Reaver, which "knows" when Raziel holds it? This could possibly explain that when his wraithblade is disabled, it sustains him infinitely, but as soon as the wraithblade manifests, the Blood Reaver "assumes" it is the Hylden Champion holding it and turns on Raziel? Or is it only the wraithblade´s doing alone, wanting to create itself? Thanks, Daniel!
Image
"My faith in destiny is all I need to prevail" (Raziel, Soul Reaver).
http://theancientsden.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Raina Audron
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:22 am

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Davinci » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:36 am

I have some questions about the initial version of Soul Reaver too.

We know that in the original version of Soul Reaver, we were to absorb Ariel into the Reaver to make it powerful enough to strike down Kain, and then we'd absorb his soul to create the Kain Reaver.

1) How did these reavers differ in the gameplay from the regular Soul Reaver?

2) Was there any special dungeon we'd have to go through to get to Ariel, since the Chronoplast visions do not show Raziel striking her down in the pillar chambers. If we would have to go through a separate dungeon, what would it be and what was the story explanation for it, since Ariel was supposed to be bound to the pillars.

3) How big of a dungeon was Kain's Mountain retreat, what sort of obstacles were to be found there? Was the battle with Kain going to be as easy as the previous two were? If not, how did the battle play out? The Chronoplast visions of the Kain battle show Raziel with a regular Reaver, was this supposed to happen before he imbues the Reaver with Ariel's soul or is there another explanation?

4) After that, was the final sounding of the Silent Cathedral's pipes going to be another dungeon? Or was it going to just be an fmv? If it was a dungeon, was there going to be a boss at the end of it? If so, what was the boss

5) How was the boss fight against Turel supposed to go down?

6) Were there any more dungeons or enemies or anything that was cut from the game that we don't know about?

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer all of our questions about these games, it's not often you see developers get so up-close and personal with their fans.
Davinci
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Daniel Cabuco » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:18 am

Hi Davinci,

1)Well I don't know about the Kain Reaver, but I know that the powered up Ariel Reaver would have been pretty much one hit kills for most Vampires at the end. In the original SR, when Kain died, that was the end of the story, so there was no Kain Reaver to really use.

2) No Ariel is always bound at the Pillars (monumentally bored and slowly going mad.. you would too if you had to stay in the same field for years)

3) Kain's retreat was supposed to be as big as any other level.. probably about Melchiah's realm size. Kain would not have been an easy boss.. his ability to teleport and lighting blast you would have been tuned up, and we'd probably create some elaborate puzzle to beat him. We never got to plan out the battle though, we knew we had to shelve it before it got to any real detailed planning stages (Amy may have had it on paper, but never presented it to us)

4) The pipes was supposed to be the final cinematic.

5) Turel was supposed to be indestructible, but also near sighted. Sound would have played an element in defeating him. That's about as far as we got with it.

6)I think everything that was remotely developed for the game is known. There were a lot of great ideas... I wanted to have a huge Vampire, who was punished to serve as a living door. Slammed into a wall by Kain and imprisoned forever to be the gatekeeper, whose very doors were made out of his living body. Raziel would have had to position a series mirrors all the way down from a sunlit hole until he could get it on the Vamp and end his torment. I drew it on a napkin, but the designers were kinda 'meh' about it, so it never got made. (*I* thought it was good though)

And you're welcome, it's been really fun interacting with fans of the series. :)
Daniel Cabuco
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:24 am

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby The Hylden » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:15 am

I wanted to have a huge Vampire, who was punished to serve as a living door. Slammed into a wall by Kain and imprisoned forever to be the gatekeeper, whose very doors were made out of his living body. Raziel would have had to position a series mirrors all the way down from a sunlit hole until he could get it on the Vamp and end his torment. I drew it on a napkin, but the designers were kinda 'meh' about it, so it never got made. (*I* thought it was good though)


That sounds amazing :D I love that idea. Shame it never came about.
The Hylden
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:15 pm

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Strands of Night » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:47 pm

I agree with Hylden completely on the living door thing... May sneak it into my D&D campaign somewhere.... Yes im a nerd... And an idea thief!
Strands of Night
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:44 pm

Re: Initial Soul Reaver plot

Postby Daniel Cabuco » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:27 am

Go for it. At least someone is using it. I may illustrate it in the future sometime too.
Daniel Cabuco
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:24 am

Next

Return to Ask Daniel Cabuco a Legacy of Kain related Question

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron
 

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 1797 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:37 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests